This Valorant Life
Improve at Valorant and at life. Co-hosted by Tim Yeung and Adam (Dopai) we take a holistic look at improving at Valorant both in-game and out-of-game.
This Valorant Life
Can Anyone Make It To Immortal? | This Valorant Life Episode 11 | Valorant Podcast
In this week's episode, Adam and myself get into whether anyone can make it to Immortal. What are the common pitfalls for different ranks? And what it takes to make it to Radiant.
Welcome to Episode Valorant Life. In this episode, Adam and I answer the question, Can anyone make it to Immortal? And what do you need to do to get there? And with that, let's get into it. Actually, before we get into it, I just want to do this for your sanity and for mine. I did have a piece of tissue stuck in my eye, and so if it's bothering you, it bothered me too, and I only realized afterwards. And so with that, let's actually get into it.
Track 1:Everyone, welcome to this episode 11 of this Valant Life. This is me, I'm Tim and my co-host Adam. And today we're gonna be jumping into immortal and the quandaries of can you get there? What do you need to do to get there? And what are the common pitfalls? So starting off with that, Adam, do you think anyone can make it to immortal or is that an impossible goal for some people?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:I think early on into the game, I would easily enter this as a yes because the game wasn't really developed. Uh, the game's been out for like, what, three years now? So it's getting, you know, pretty competitive. I would say a lot of people know how to shoot well, like mechanically. Um, so to answer the question directly, I would say if you have love and passion for the game and you enjoy it, I think if. That's like the core focus of it. I think the answer would be yes, but I think if you don't really love the game where you're just grinding to grind and like, you try to, like you are faking it almost, I don't think you're gonna be able to make it. I see that. Go
Track 1:limits someone who's faking it from being able to make it?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:So, we were talking about this book, you recommend it to me, the Art of Impossible, but I think what I've realized with that book and just from. Recalling back on my past work with clients is TLDR. Like in the book it kind of says like, people learn quicker when they have flow and like they have alignment with their curiosity, their passion, their purpose, all this stuff. And I think when people are faking it in particular, especially around the ascendant level, you can kind of see a lot of autopilot and a lot of frustration and emotion come out. So when they're trying to force it, they don't have fun anymore. They're not curious about the game anymore. They don't have respect about the game anymore, and maybe they did early on. They just lost the love for the game. They're, they feel like immortal should come to them rather than they should be working to get there. And I think that's the biggest thing is I see it so, so many times where people get to ascendant and they're just stuck because the biggest obstacle isn't the game. It's themselves. Like they have this viewer of themselves that they deserve it, or if they've the worst thing is if they've hit immortal before and they've lost it and they're trying to climb back to it. They're just. Absolutely throwing their games. And Few people that are, have went through this and like working with them. I try to, it's less about me helping them with the game and helping them with themselves. And once I kind of confront themselves, they, they climb. And I mean, just thinking about one specific client in particular, he went on like a crazy, like 17 wins, three losses after like realizing that he was the problem in his games and he was able to climb back to a modal last season. So. Yeah. It's, it's really just that. Yeah, it is crazy. It's really that curiosity about, in like that love for the game. I think that even I felt it especially recently, which is why taking a break from streaming is like, I. It's very hard to like fall out of love for that game. And I think if you don't have that love for the game, you're not gonna be able to hit immortal. Like maybe if you're a, like, I don't know, super, super disciplined person and like you're an outlier, like a, I don't know, a David Goggins type of Where you can just push through all of the pain, To make it to Immortal. But I, you know, for the majority of us that we don't have that level of discipline, I don't think you're gonna be able to do it.
Track 1:Well, I think there's a couple things I want to riff off on there. One is that I think there's a real it's really insidious. Like you kind of don't think about how bad the effect can be, but when you start sentences or like the thought process of things with like, I deserve. It starts to really kind of wrought your ability to play, your ability to learn, and it kind of puts you on tilt kind of like almost automatically. Like have you seen that kind of mindset with some of your clients? Like, I deserve to be immoral. I was immortal before, like it's just my teammates who don't have hands, right.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:yeah, a hundred percent. I've seen it time and time again. I've seen it even in myself, especially on m like episode resets because the MMR is such a big factor in the game. You know, like, oh, I'm gonna climb anyways even if I lose.'cause at least for me, I. Uh, that, you know, the game caps you out at Ascent One. So if I have like radiant MMR, I'm gonna gain 30 rr per win and lose, you know, five or something. So that mindset plagues a lot of players, including me, that are above the scent one threshold when you get reset because you're kind of just playing to get the reps in to try to get to where you were before and. Some people don't quite make it back to where they were before because of this mindset. And I've definitely run into that mental block several times. And I think, you know, I, the only way I've really climbed out of it is by taking a break and realizing like I have to actually put in some effort to win games and it's not just gonna come to me. And that's. What happened on my mo more recent climb of getting to 900 rr, but I think I'm kind of going through the cycle again.
Track 1:Yeah, I. It's harsh, but it's true that if you look at the common denominator in all of your games, the only common denominator is you. Same is actually true if you look at all of your life's problems too. I want to go back to one of the previous points you made, which is just around if you don't have a passion for the game. So the way I would interpret that is that unless you really love it, you're not going to care to learn all those little intricacies. To push you from one level to the next. Because to get to Imm Mortal, you kind of have to really know the game. You have to know exactly the angles to peak in certain common areas of the map. Like you kind of have had to memorize it. You have to maybe even start to memorize the off angles that often good players would play to catch you off guard. Like I feel like what you are saying is, unless you have a real passion for it, unless you really enjoy it, that's gonna feel like. Eating your vegetables is gonna feel like doing your vitamins or eating your vitamins, and it's gonna be hard to do enough of that and learn enough of it to get to immortal if you don't love it. Is it like, am I getting that right?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:I think you're spot on. I think, uh, maybe another word we can add to it is like, you almost wanna have like an obsession. And I see this a lot with, just the Valant community as a whole. I think there's, you know, we've heard Valant accent, we've heard all these egos and like you, at least I ask myself like, how do these type of players get to Immortal? Where they have these really high egos where they don't really have that really good social skills, but they're incredibly good at the video game. And I think the answer that I had for me was, even though these players might not. Have a healthy relationship with the game because they're obsessed and maybe like deep down that's like their, they've forced it into their passion. They were able to look into those nuanced details like you're saying. You know, everything kind of just becomes automatic for them. But again, then they become their own problem and maybe that's what stops'em from getting ever into radiant, Or, you know, high radiant, whatever the case may be. But yeah, I think you can do it. Without love, but then it becomes an unhealthy obsession. So I guess, Yeah, that's kind of what I've seen, or that's my conclusion, I should say.
Track 1:What about, okay, so we asked about immortal. So long answer short. Long story short is if you think if you're sufficiently dedicated and you really love the game, and I think the other caveat would be you give yourself enough time, right? You can make it to immortal. What about Radiant? Do you think anyone can make it to Radiant or do you think some people probably just from like game sense or raw aim will probably never be able to make a toran?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:Man, that's such a hard one to answer. Again, I would like to say anyone would be able to get to Radiant. Speaking from my own experience, but speaking from working with clients, I actually don't think it's possible. And I hate to say that, but I think it's because it's only top 500, whereas Immortal is an RR threshold. Anyone can kind of get to that. But top 500, you're competing against those that are you know, they have more time freedom, or maybe they're more. Talented, or maybe they just learn things quicker. Like you're now competing against those that just have advantages against you. And I think if you don't have enough time to outweigh those advantages, I don't think anyone can get there. Say the question was s or framed in a way, if, you know you were both at the start of the race and you both had the same advantages in life or whatever, like you, you have the same amount of time in the world to do it then. I would say probably, but I can't say for certainty to be honest.
Track 1:Sure. No, that, that's totally fair. I think there's also an element when you're grinding for that top 500, there's an element of you could do it, like, I think most people are asking'cause physically do you think it's possible? But I think the underlying part of that is for some people it physically might be possible, but they're not sufficiently talented, like, aim or whatever wise over other people that the timeline to get there. Capacity. The issue won't be whether it's possible it'll be that they probably won't be able to commit to that length of timeline. Right? Like, is someone really willing or interested in committing, let's say five years to go from ascendant to a. Because they're not particularly, they don't have that kind of innate talent. I think if we all could aim like demon one, you'd probably make it probably almost, without even knowing anything about the game, right? You'd just be like, I'm just clicking heads. Right. But I think if you aren't special in that way and you can't somehow manufacture that, like it's gonna be an absolute grind because I think, you know, I've seen this just recently. I. Even on social media is, I'm sure you've seen like those people on Twitter of like, oh, I've built like a huge following and I'm posting on LinkedIn and I'm seeing that now too. And it's interesting, like in, in three months I've seen people that started next to me and were posting every day. And then now after the new year, they're gone. Like, they've just like, like. They don't exist anymore. Almost. I've messaged them. They don't message back like they've just gone. And I think it's because, you know, the biggest thing that separates people actually sometimes is not talent. It's just effort and time and perseverance, right? Because a lot of people just fall away.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:I don't know why, but that kind of triggered like a thought in my brain with college. Like, I wouldn't say I was bad at school. I would even go to, as far to say like I was pretty talented at school, like book learning and like that type of. Environment, even though I didn't enjoy it, came naturally to me to the point to where, even though I didn't really enjoy coding or computer science, I was still most of the time doing really well in my classes, but I didn't have that perseverance for it. So I, I would imagine some of my peers, you know, they're probably off doing really good stuff in the field and like I'm nowhere to be seen in that field because I didn't stick around and like now I'm in, you know, this gaming field and I Like you said, the perseverance and all that, like, maybe that comes back to the love of the game. Like if you You're not gonna be there.
Track 1:It's to with things. When you love what you're doing, right? Like, I think on the one hand there is grit, like, which is like, can you come back from things? But you're gonna have way more grit when you like, really love what you do. You are gonna have way less grit if you kind of hate it. And if it's always, you know, taking your vitamins or eating your vegetables. So maybe let's. Break the common pitfalls to people being able to advance out of like the different tiers. So I'd love to hear, you know, if we're gonna class it like iron to gold, flat to ascendant, and then immortal to radiant. What are the common pitfalls? So maybe let's start at the bottom, like iron to gold. What are the common pitfalls people have in being able to progress their rank and their skill at the game?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:Okay, so this one's pretty straightforward. I've said it multiple times before on my stream. Iron to gold. Your main focus should only be fundamentals and in particular fundamentals on how to get eliminations. And you shouldn't be thinking about game sense, you shouldn't be thinking about lineups. You shouldn't really even be thinking about how to play proper valant. I think when people go down that route, you know these people that are introduced to the game, they look at streamers, they look at, you know, maybe VCT tournament matches, and they think the game should be played in a set way, but the reality is. New players don't even have, the game is completely different. They're better off just thinking about it as death match or maybe swift play and just running around and trying to get, you know, head shots. And that's by far the number one thing I always see when I coach lower rated players is they just have too much emphasis on playing with the team. Playing right, playing scared because they don't have that, you know, foundation down on their mechanics. You know, maybe they would cheese kills with like weird techniques. Like, I don't know, a DS spraying or they, they just get away with like running gunning and like, you know, you, you can get kills a hundred percent in that rink, but you're not gonna have that solid fun, you know, fundamentals once you actually climb the ladder. So.
Track 1:So what I'm hearing is that they are, they tend to be focusing on playing the game at a higher level when they actually don't really know how to play the game, even at a fundamental level.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:Yes. They're skipping the basics.
Track 1:I think it's similar to like what you see in fitness a lot where people will get into working out and the thing that they focus on is like supplements. It's like, no, I think if you're just getting into working out, going in the gym and doing anything is probably what you should be focusing on. But, and the problem I'm hearing from you is that when an iron to gold player focuses on all of these things and they don't focus on their fundamentals. They don't improve their fundamentals and then that's why they get stuck. They will get stuck complaining about not playing a meta comp Instead of realizing that they're just bad at peaking and cross hair placement.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:The most common one I hear is my duelist in this rank don't go out. Well, okay. Who cares? You know? You know, like they're not gonna go out in higher ranks either. Like you have to figure out how to, you know, take map controller, open up the map yourself. Especially if you're on a support agent. Like On your teammates for everything. So, yeah.
Track 1:What about PLA two Ascendant? What are the common pitfalls in this rank? Because at this rank, you would say if you're in PLA two ascendant, you have decent fundamentals to be able to get there. What are the common pitfalls for someone to transcend or get past this la this rank or this band to immortal?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:So typically this is where I see the most deviation. We can go ahead and outline two. One is the player that has really good mechanics. And they, maybe they came from other shooters and they have like, they just know how to shoot their gun and they just have no idea of utility usage, team play, role, identity, things like that. And then you have the complete opposite, like people who are really good and informed at the game and they've gotten their violent fundamentals to the point where they can pull off. Like think of like a boster esque situation where like, you know, you're playing the game really. In air quotes correctly. So maybe we can start with the mechanical player. Obviously the answer would be trying to get them to learn the game more. And specifically the more important one for me is just understanding what their role is supposed to do. So if they're really good at dualist, but you know they're last alive every single round, or they're not really making space, you know, you're not really impacting the game well, you're getting kills and that probably got you out of gold. Because you're able to clutch against these worst players, but you're not gonna be able to do that consistently in the higher ranks. So you have to win the round. Sometimes that means just running in and dying. And once you do know your role identity, you can start experimenting with doing things out of it, but not the other way around. So, for example, sometimes Dualists will like to lurk. You know, you can do that as long as you know that's not generally the most optimal play, but it might be the best play given the context of the situation. So that's where I would start role identity, figure out what you are supposed to be doing. If you don't know, try things out. Maybe ask your teammates. Maybe they know more than you, especially if you're like coming from a different shooter. Um, but yeah, that's where I would start. As for
Track 1:Well, and, but I would say, I would just add this point there is, the key thing is if you are learning a role identity and it is maybe contrary to your natural play patternings, Gonna feel pretty unnatural. Like it's gonna be a little bit forced at first, and you almost have to kind of. Almost over exaggerate. If you're doing a sports move and you're trying to do one thing over another, you're gonna over exaggerate it. And so in, in this sense, you almost have to exaggerate how you would play that role to make it more natural and to see how it works. Well, when you do play that role identity.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:Yeah I do. I like the exaggeration and maybe one thing to add on top of that, and then. We can wrap up around to the other one is, I think because you might've climbed without that much, I guess, game knowledge into what other roles can do, it might be beneficial for you to cycle through to another role just for a short while to see like how that role views the game. And like then you can, you know, go back to your role. You just get another perspective essentially. Maybe like spend an act or maybe a month or two just trying out a different agent and just sticking to it. That doesn't mean I'm not encouraging someone to fill, I'm saying like, you're taking a sprint almost of learning on a different role and like you're ins
Track 1:Because you main do list and you always kind of have, what did spending some time on controller teach you?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:So number one, anchoring sites really important. As a dualist, you rarely do that. You're typically the rotator, and I didn't understand how powerful that was until I was the anchor roll be because I would rotate quick on controller and then get lurked upon and lose the sight, and then I would get yelled at. That's number one. And then number two, I would say is like the concept of like spreading out and lurking, because when you're a dualist, you're typically first or second contact in the round. As a controller, you're gonna be like third or fourth contacting the round most of the time. So that didn't really stick with me. Like, my life is important. And by seeing the game in that lens, I'm able to now support my teammates a little bit more when I notice, you know, maybe my controller's running in, like, Hey, slow down. Let me do it so you can use your util later. Or if I am playing controller and I notice my doist is playing somewhat passive, the answer isn't to be more aggressive. It's to try to urge him into a plan so he can be first contact. So
Track 1:How has what you learned as a control affected your play when you when you play doula now?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:I think the biggest thing is I don't run in and die as much. If I notice my controller is lurking, I will maybe like make pressure, maybe take Adule and then fall back, because now I know the other site is weaker and then I can rotate back to them. Whereas before, I would be way more inclined to kind of just run out and then hope for the best.
Track 1:Okay. Okay. So the second type of player was the player that has all game knowledge and all fundamentals, but they're not very good at shooting the gun.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:Essentially, yeah they're what you would probably call like a perfect teammate to the point to where they are no longer selfish, they're too selfless and they're, they're trying their best to rely on, like, be a really good team player and support them, and they're not taking control of the game, so everything is out of their control. They're like, oh, like my teammate lost that fight. Unlucky, or, I don't know. I have to play retake of this game, like I'm holding down my sight. And they're losing their sight. So you're stuck playing a retake simulator. And what's important to understand there is your teammates aren't gonna play perfect valant. The enemy team might be just doing better than they are. Maybe they are just better than they are. So you have to now adapt, play outside of your role a little bit and play on that site with them, or be willing to kind of push the limits of your role identity. And this is kind of what I mean with going back to the controller. One thing I noticed when I was playing controller, was that I would play one site like practically the entire game. And if I was playing retake simul, it would be retake similar. And one thing I had to adapt to pretty early was if they're losing that site, I'm gonna go and put myself over there and, you know, flip the site and just give them a different look. And I find with platinum ascendant players that have that tendency is they just let the game just happen. Like they, they're very one dimensional. Maybe if I could really outline one thing is that is like the amount of one dimensional play I see in plateaus in it is insane. You don't see that in iron and iron to gold. Maybe it's because they don't know what they're doing. They don't have like a preset, rigid idea of how the game view should be. So they're just doing whatever. But it's crazy in PLA to ascendant, I'll watch 12 rounds and like 10 of them are the exact same star. I'm like, what happened? Like you learned the game this way and now you're just stuck like this. There's no critical thinking, there's no adaptation. There's no actual thought going Behind it is. They learned it either from themselves. They're just repeating what worked or someone told them this is what you're supposed to Thought about why and it's just crazy.
Track 1:I get the sense when you're talking about that this type of player has a good idea of what generally optimal is. In their, I think I'm this player, by the way. And so I think once you have an idea what optimal is, you feel like to do anything else would be wrong. And so you become like really rigid. And it can be almost like autopilot, right? Like I know that this is like, let's say I'm playing Viper. I know this is the best setup for Viper on Breeze because Nats, like I, we watched this I think before. Nats always plays b. Never plays a, but if they're always hitting a, I think the optimal guy will be like, I should go A, but Nas plays B, so I'll just play B.'cause that's what you're supposed to do. Right? And I think there's an element of what's optimal in a vacuum, right? And what's actually most beneficial in the context you found yourself in. Right. So maybe the Nats play is optimal in a vacuum with perfect players on both sides. Right. But your team isn't perfect. You're not perfect. And so in that case, you have to be able to adapt and just figure out another solution that works. Right. And I think that's that, that like openness to changing that open maybe that, even that curiosity of like, what could I do differently is I think hard for that player to adopt.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:I'll be honest, I'm that player as well. I, when I play in the shitter or I play controller. I'll just, I'll be staring at the mini out the entire time. Like, how aren't they winning showers? There's three showers go like, like objectively it should make sense, but it's not playing out that way. So that's my biggest struggle is putting myself there to try to be the difference maker when I play these support agents. So, you know, I guess, I guess it's a common trait even in radiant for myself. So, yeah it's a
Track 1:I think fun fundamentally, it's shifting from a passive play style to an active one. Like trying to, because even maybe it still won't work, right? But at least you tried something which is objectively better to try something and still lose the round than to do the exact same thing that has been losing you all the previous rounds.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:Right. The whole insanity thing. Yeah. Yep.
Track 1:For the dozens of you that listen to this podcast that are immortal, what's the what's the gap or what's the common pitfall for an immortal player to get to Radiant?
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:We've alluded to this early on, but I would say the main one is kind of yourself. It's like your process and yourself. So I think this is like really where your habits kind of come true here is like you can brute force your way maybe to a Senate immortal if you have really like hardcore love for the game, but making that in grind to radiant, you have to be really objective, I think. About what you're doing as a player round to round. Like not throwing away ecos like you have to look for like every edge, I think to get there. And I think this is pretty prominent when you look at people that are struggling to get to reading that have been there before. I've seen this throughout, like a lot of my friends kind of just playing the game. They've love their love for the game, have died out and they just haven't been able to get back there. Maybe more recently people know, like Woohoo is struggling to get to radiant playing rays. Obviously it's a new role, a new agent, but he's done it before. He's a great player. He's very smart and I think the thing that's holding it back really is himself. Like he doesn't, he has like these, I guess, perceived ways the game should be played.'cause he is been there before Hard for him. I'm assuming to adjust that and to adjust to being a race player. So that, that's the hardest one is like continue to learn, I think. And like looking for nuanced stuff and trying to apply that to your game. I mean, even for me, if I take my eye off the ball, even for one act, like the most recent one, actually, I ended in immortal even though I was radiant the entire time. And like come the last two weeks or so, I just dropped the ball. I wasn't focused on learning and it showed like I wasn't able to actually win, even though I felt like I was really trying to win on some And I just lost and I. It's a very stark difference from where I made the push to 900 irr. I think the main thing was like my process was really good. I was warming up every single day. I was reviewing games. If I come, like came into a problem from one of the maps, like one of the matches, like let's say it was a close game I lost in OT, or I lost 1113, those rounds would replay on my mind and I would. I would. be forced to go look for a solution in VAs or looking at my VAs or looking at Provos to see how they deal with that. Um, otherwise I would have trouble sleeping.'cause I was obsessed. I was passionate. I wanted to get better. I wanted to keep learning. And I think once people get to Immortal, they think that it's just more time. And part of
Track 1:Just gotta grind more games.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:Yeah, that kind of works, but not really. It's like that's. Part of it, but it's not sufficient. Necessary but not sufficient. Yeah, I think it's just the willingness to continue learning and challenging your view on the game.'cause your view on the game will change a lot. I especially with how these like top, top gradients play the game. They adapt to what you do in one or two rounds. So whatever you had before, you're gonna get set with a new problem. And man I ran into this so much when I played dualist is because. I played so fast and before I could like kind of out dual people or, you know, maybe I can get into the chaos and create timings and stuff like this and win. What I've noticed is like the more I kind of go down that rabbit hole and trying to force the game, it doesn't work. These players, Like these players can now punish you. They don't have to actually outthink you, they just have to outshoot you. And if I'm not trying to actually actively outthink them, then I'm gonna fall into that trap. So I think, yeah that's the biggest thing is in immortal, you have to continue learning and trying to look for edges. I.
Track 1:Because otherwise the game will change. Things will pass you by. The things that worked before aren't gonna work now'cause people are expecting it. Right.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:Yeah, the thing that worked last round won't work the round after if they're actually adapting. I mean, this is you'll see this, if you ever play against any of those ranked gls that like micromanage and calm, like some that come to mind that are really good, or curry or dasner, maybe even Asana or som like they, they're on top of their game when they play ranked Bec and they try to adapt to every little thing. And, If you don't, if you don't have the foresight to see that what you're doing is pre predictable, you might just end up losing in like, come round three. So Yeah a different game up there I think.
Track 1:Oh, for sure. Well, I think that's kinda all we had for today. So until next week, thanks for taking the time, Adam. And if you're watching this, thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time.
adam_1_01-19-2024_122220:See you next time.